Topic: TO ALL PROG FANS!!!!

[RonF]

Do you know, as this site is PROMOTING small label prog I thought more folk would agree with this........ nowt queer as folk though, maybe there are some red faces, maybe some folk just don't care.

Maybe some folk just don't like MySpace?

[Melo the Prog Goddess]

It does belong to Rupert Murdoch.... and there have been protests by bands as part of the agreement you sign as an artist/band gives his empire rights over your music.... I don't know if it has been sorted out but Billy Bragg was at the heart of these protests.... I would caution all of you who have music up there to scrutinize the fine print... Rupert Murdoch does not do anything merely from the goodness of his heart... dare I say "What heart?" - ah that cash register that ticks inside of him I dare say!!!

I don't like Murdoch.... I can actually place the destruction of football as we once knew it and enjoyed it at the doors of this shark.... even the astronomical price of satellite TV is his doing.... In addition he supports right-wing governments especially those that make laws that allow him to make more money.... yep right-wing governments that care a flying fuck about the poor and underprivileged.... and try to reduce taxes on the upper echelons of society where money is concentrated... oh and increase taxes on the middle-class which is slowly being eroded....

Fox News with those smug right-wing bimbos and badly behaved crappy anchors is also his just as Sky News is along with the whole Sky network...

I don't trust anything that has Murdoch's hand in it.... so be wary of what you put up on My Space....

I guess you can tell I don't think much of him eh? rant over 

[wilcey]

Ok, I get it that you don't like myspace.

  http://www.myspace.com/meloproggoddess  

[Melo the Prog Goddess]

Rach, that almost sounds like you are having a go at me; by trying to point out that I have a myspace account; I do; in fact  have two if you would care to look at my signature.

What I don't have is a band account; also I don't trust it enough to have a group for the Bazaar there....

I was in fact responding to Ron's post about not liking myspace - and pointing out reasons for the dislike or lack of trust that might exist.

[wilcey]

Hey hunny, I am not having a go at anyone.........

I thought it was a bit strange hearing how vociferoiusly your disapprove of myspace, when I know you use it....... repeat, not having a go !!!

I think most bands who use myspace weigh up the lesser of evils and would rather pop a couple of tracks on myspace so that folk can listen, RATHER than have folk download whole albums INSTEAD of buying them, and it's the INSTEAD brigade that are putting bands out of business.

You catch more flies with honey than vinegar, and I don't intend to offend anyone, 94 people (mostly musicians) have now stood up on the myspace and asked for folk to respect their wishes to not file share and download.
We all love music here, and we all love to talk about it and to tell friends about it and the internet and (especially) places like the good ol'bazaar create incredible tools for spreading the word, I know Mark would 100% agree with that, but unforutnately there are folk who misuse technology to their own advantage and to the detriment of others. I do not acuse anyone here, this is a general statement to everyone.
Prog Against Pirates is going to create a voice, so that when folk stand up and stamp their feet about their 'rights' to listen all the bands who have joined can stand back up and talk about their right to be paid for their work.
I think that it's a very difficult and emotive subject, but it's one that causes a gret deal of anguish to bands, all I hope to do is to prickle the consciences of the folk that take music without paying....... cos it's really disrespectful.

Cheers,

Your friend,  (did a typo there and nearly ended up as your fire end !!!)
Rach x

[Melo the Prog Goddess]

Rach, maybe I overreacted... but the issue is one shrouded in grey.

I have not signed up to the myspace thinggy you have created coz I used to download... and feel therefore that my signing up to it is hypocritical in a sense, coz that is where I got back into the prog scene.

I have mixed feelings about downloading.... certainly I understand it now from the band's point of view.... but I also know that downloading an album can allow you to judge whether you want to buy an album or not.... and considering an album can cost 10 quid upwards you don't want to spend money on something that really may have only 1 good song on it if that at all.

I truly believe downloading is here to stay and that bands must find a way to use downloading to their advantage.... take the bands Rain and OSC - both have used downloading to their advantage.... I think that is the way forward.

[Sarki]

Melo Said:
I have not signed up to the myspace thinggy you have created coz I used to download... and feel therefore that my signing up to it is hypocritical in a sense, coz that is where I got back into the prog scene.

Unfortunately this is where I stand also. I've never downloaded but I have given and recieved a few burned CD's before now. I don't particularly like it, that's why I tend to buy alot more than I have recieved, but for me to stand against piracy when I have partaken would be hypocritical on my behalf.

Sadly, I also find it hard to believe that not one single member who has signed up for this campaign has never downloaded or copied at sometime in their life.

I don't mean to fuel the fire, but it was the norm back in the day to copy vinyl to casette, just so you could listen to it in the car.

Doesn't make it right but this subject various shades of grey indeed.

[Mick]

To me the issue is about people who download albums, With never any intention of buying the albums, and there is quite a few of them about.

[Sarki]

To me the issue is about people who download albums, With never any intention of buying the albums, and there is quite a few of them about.

Babe, you just shaded the issue further!

The whole piracy thing can never be black or white. I certainly know people who will only buy the CD's and NEVER download nor copy. I also know plenty of people who download and then go on to buying the album and even the entire back catalogue, but wouldn't do it without having downloaded something in the first place.

I don't like to think of bands being ripped off. I certainly know that most of the smaller bands all have day jobs, mouths to feed etc.. But ripping off Pendragon IS the same as ripping off Madonna at the end of the day, so what can be done to appease both sides?

[Mick]

If 5,000 people rip off Madge, It will leave a slight dent in her income, If they do that to bands the size of IQ,Pendragon etc, It can be devastating.
I have been on forums where some of the people on there are quite proud of the fact they never buy albums, They constantly download, Thats where the problem lies. Most bands provide free samples and downloads now anyway on their sites, But thats not good enough for some.

I used to tape TOTP when i was a young(couple of years ago).

[Melo the Prog Goddess]

To me the issue is about people who download albums, With never any intention of buying the albums, and there is quite a few of them about.

Sadly that is true... which is why I feel that the only way forward for bands is to find some way of using downloading to their advantage. Like I said bands like OSC and Rain are using it to their advantage. OSC has mp3s of all their live gigs available in mp3 format on their site.... Rain put their whole album in mp3 format @128 and in addition gave permission for this to be used for downloads.... the album can still be bought from their site.... these are only a couple of examples.... I am sure there are many more... in fact Umphrey's Mcgee comes to mind.

Downloading is here to stay whether it be legal or illegal and bands have to find a way to use it to their advantage.

[Ganymedes]

Sharing as such can be legal or illegal in most countries - depending on how it is done and how widely it is done. In some countries sharing is never illegal.

As for concrete things about "taping" albums, just a few legal facts about it, I mean how it goes in here:

- every person pays a fee for EVERY CD, DVD (or cassette) that they buy. This is NOT dependent on how they will be used. This means that artists are getting a lot of money, because of the PROSPECT that these medias can be used for sharing.

- all the digital TV recorders have a fee that goes to artists (since they are means for "taping")
- taping/recording library material is perfectly legal
- sharing among a few friends is perfectly legal

[Credo Man]

I used to tape TOTP when i was a young(couple of years ago).

Fuck me Mick, that must have been the big old fashioned tape to tape machines when you were young 

[Mick]

The game was to try and stop the tape before the presenter spoke.

[Sarki]

I used to tape TOTP when i was a young(couple of years ago).

Fuck me Mick, that must have been the big old fashioned tape to tape machines when you were young 

Mick only taped them so he could gawp at Pan's People...